This piece will end up being one of the most rambling and incoherent that I will ever write for this blog and that’s saying a lot. I’m writing it at 4:30 in the morning instead of sleeping because I woke up and started thinking about it for some reason because my brain doesn’t work correctly and now I’m awake. Not wide awake but awake to the point that if I do not get this down on the paper I will not be able to get back to sleep. So here are some sleep deprived opinions on a matter every stupid nerd seems to have an opinion on.
I’ve wanted to get this down on paper for the longest time. The longest time. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. I see this fight between Jack Kirby superfans and Stan Lee superfans all the time. Who did create the Marvel Universe? Well It’s long and rambly but I have the answer. I mean I think I have the answer because I clearly cannot go back in time and no one thought to clearly and concisely get the thoughts and feelings of everyone in 1961 through 1964 when the most popular characters were being created because back then most people thought comic books were disposable entertainment for children, the mentally impaired and the insane. They didn’t realize they could make big money from it for decades.
Someone posted a thread that I’m pretty sure was bait to start arguments and I don’t do Facebook arguments. I spill thousands of pointless words on a blog that very few people read. I pretty much use Facebook to keep in contact with people and never argue in the groups I’m in. I may also buy things sometimes from those groups but never arguments. Facebook arguments are pointless because the other person wants to argue about something, anything and will do it until you are beaten down. Period. Anyway they were praising Stan Lee for doing everything, and no that’s not the case. I do not believe Stan Lee and Disney when they say it all flew out of his brain and no one else working with him did anything creative ever. I also believe that he took too much credit. That is clear and present. He certainly did do that. I will never argue against that point but I will also never try to say that he went into the offices every day and shoved his thumb up his ass and gave himself prostate massages for like several fucking decades.
One guy posted something I actually agree with. Stan Lee’s selling of Marvel gave it an identity. It made it feel COOLER than the other guys, not just DC but any of them. It made them feel like a bunch of hip and fun uncles to us young kids. That all started with Stan Lee and he made us feel like we were part of a cool club for cool dudes. You can say he was just trying to sell a product but hey none of the guys you want to say did everything would ever get eyes on their stuff if he didn’t do that you know. A big thing is that well the Marvel Method, Stan would sometimes give an artist like a story in one or two sentences and they had to get that out into 22 or sometimes even more pages. That alone makes every story something that both of them should have gotten a written by credit on. One person said all he did was edit dialogue and well that ain’t the case skippy. I’ll talk about the stuff done fully by Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby.
Steve Ditko I will start with because I just read Mr. A for the first time and wow what a piece of shit story that was. Yes, it had great unique art I will give it that but holy shit if you want to read an Objectivist screed about how Ayn Rand (the hypocritical piece of shit that she was) should be considered the savior of humanity and that shades of gray don’t exist (yeah I’m sorry but they do, Stevie) and that’s one of the things that made Marvel popular. The whole shades of gray. The heroes weren’t perfect and the villains sometimes had humanity to them. It’s what changed comics in general and Steve Ditko hated it with a passion. Was Steve Ditko a creative man? Hell yes. It shows in a lot of the work he created after Spider-Man and Dr. Strange (this is another thing people use against Stan because well he helped create Nightcat, Ravage 2099 and fucking Stripperella where as Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko created stuff like the Question and Darkseid who are way more notable than Ravage 2099 or Pamela Anderson in a supersuit)
Jack Kirby was a talented man, hell if you had to put a gun to my head and say the one person who Marvel needed was I’d probably end up picking him. Yes, I know I’m trying to point out it wasn’t all one person (and it wasn’t, sorry) but Jack Kirby has his DNA in just about every Marvel thing that isn’t Dr. Strange. Yes, Jack Kirby came up with a different Spider-Man idea that they did not use. Anyway Jack Kirby left Marvel Comics for DC Comics in 1970. He created a lot of wild and inventive things. The first time I read them I cannot deny I was put off by the weird, clunky, dialogue (not from any of his DC comics but the words “Cut that funky corn, Sersi” shows up in a Eternals book) I mean now unfettered 100% Jack Kirby is one of my favorite things this world has ever given me but I cannot deny that the dialogue is no where near perfect and is still probably the worst parts of his comics.
This is where Stan Lee came in. His dialogue is better than both. I do not care about to fight this with anyone. Ever. You are being dishonest and lying to yourself if you say he just edited their dialogue. His dialogue was peppy and fun and gave so many characters their personality. From Spider-Man’s wisecracking ways to Reed Richards having his head up his ass but still caring deeply about his family. It all came from Stan Lee’s dialogue. Hell even if the one thing Stan Lee did in his like 800 years at Marvel Comics was be like “No, Steve, Spider Man isn’t going to kiss Ayn Rand’s ass like you do” then I’d give him credit for literally saving that character and well that one thing alone would make him a founding father of Marvel Comics in my eyes
Here’s another thing, these people argue about Jack Kirby and Stan Lee and Steve Ditko but what if I told you this insane thing… Marvel Comics was around before any of them worked there. It’s true, you can look it up! It was founded in 1939 by a man named Martin Goodman and if you want to be pedantic and petty you could give all the credit to him because his money was what set the ball rolling. I do want to mention the people that worked on his first comic, Carl Burgos (created the Human Torch), Bill Everett (Namor) and Bob Byrd (his original Ka-Zar pulp was made into a comic in this issue!) because they were there first but even then I don’t know if that means they should get all the credit either!
What do I think? I think it took an insane amount of creative people starting on August 31st, 1939 (just 46 years shy of my birthday!) to create the Marvel Universe. That’s when it all started, sure they weren’t known as Marvel Comics then (they were known as Timely, then Atlas) but that’s when it started. All three of those characters. Namor, Human Torch (the android version) and Ka-Zar all appeared throughout the decades. It took those guys to kick it off and it took tons of people from the 1960s (some guys want you to believe Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko were the only people who worked at Marvel Comics in the 1960s) to turn it into a power house. It took people in the 1970s to create new characters that became incredibly popular. Same with the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s. It takes way more than one or two people to create a character that becomes a household name, it takes a fucking army of people to do that. Marvel Comics was created by an army of talented artists and writers and inkers and letterers and colorists and all kinds of things I’m forgetting and It’s very very unfair to just go DURRR THIS ONE GUY DID IT ALL IT WAS HIM!!!!!!
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